Does the brokenness of our world drive you toward discouragement? Is it possible to live an abundant life on this planet?
Join Rachel as she interviews Bible Study Author Carol McLeod, and they uncover the shortest path to joy on this side of heaven, as well as practical steps you can take to live well no matter the state of society.
RESOURCES
Overflowing: Living Abundantly in a Broken Culture by Carol McCleod
Carol McCleod Ministries
Welcome to the Entangling Life Podcast with Rachel Rojo. I’m Rachel, and this podcast is where you’ll find this faith to clear your head and calm your heart. I’m so glad you’re here. Make yourself at home.
00:00:27 Rachel Wojo
Well, thank you so much for listening in today. I’m Rachel, and you are listening to the Untangling Life Podcast today. We have a guest and I’m so excited to share a little bit of her story with you today. We are introducing Carol McLeod. Carol, thank you so much for being with us today.
00:00:47 Carol McLeod
Rachel, it’s my delight and joy. I’ve wanted to meet you for so long. So this will have to do for right now sitting at our computers, looking at each other.
00:00:57 Rachel Wojo
Well, I’m excited to have.
00:00:59 Rachel Wojo
You with us because you have so much.
00:01:03 Rachel Wojo
To offer listeners when it comes to dealing with joy and how to really approach all of the turmoil that’s happening in our world, there’s a lot of it. Anxiety is at an all time high. We just talked about this in my small group, my church small group last night.
00:01:23 Rachel Wojo
And so I wanted to share. I know you’ve studied so much in this area, why does it seem that our broken culture is holding Christians back, even on a personal level?
00:01:39 Carol McLeod
Well, the culture is pervasive and it shouts so loudly at us. Rachel, it it never takes a breath. It never takes a break. And so we’re being inundated with all these conflicting voices that are endeavoring to get our attention the.
00:01:59 Carol McLeod
The enemy really does.
00:02:03 Rachel Wojo
Yes.
00:02:03 Carol McLeod
And so we have to be so careful as believers in Jesus Christ. What voices we listen to, what we choose to do with our time, what we choose to look at on our devices. Rachel, I I’m in the same boat. I have to evaluate every day.
00:02:09 Rachel Wojo
And.
00:02:22 Carol McLeod
How much time do I spend in the word? How much time did I spend thinking about Jesus? How much time did I spend singing his songs?
00:02:30 Carol McLeod
As opposed to how much time I spent worrying about tomorrow and the culture and all that’s ahead. So I think it’s a very intentional choice where we turn down the voices that are mere distractors. And, you know, this is the thing, Rachel. Those voices, they’re not even telling us the.
00:02:35 Rachel Wojo
Yeah.
00:02:49 Carol McLeod
Truth. And yet we’re believing them. And so to turn down those voices and to turn up the voice of eternity.
00:02:50 Rachel Wojo
Right.
00:02:52 Rachel Wojo
Yeah.
00:02:58 Carol McLeod
I think that’s one of the very practical things we all need to do in the culture in which we live.
00:02:58 Rachel Wojo
Yeah.
00:03:05 Carol McLeod
Ah.
00:03:05 Rachel Wojo
It’s so true. I just heard a friend say this week, and it was so interesting the way she said it. We were sitting at coffee and she said even when we know the truth, we are so leaky.
00:03:18 Rachel Wojo
And I thought, Oh my goodness, we are we’re leaky. We just let it, like, flow through us and.
00:03:24 Rachel Wojo
Then it’s time to fill up and we fill up with the wrong things, which is exactly what you’re talking about right now. I know that you like to share meaningful family stories, and there’s one that I heard about recently that you shared regarding your grandson when you whispered to him. Go change the world.
00:03:37 Carol McLeod
Yeah.
00:03:45 Rachel Wojo
I do share with us a little bit about that.
00:03:48 Carol McLeod
Story. Yeah. He was only about four years old, Rachel.
00:03:51 Carol McLeod
And he had a shock of blonde hair and little freckles across his nose. And he lived 1000 miles away from me. The nerve of his parents.
00:03:59 Carol McLeod
Right.
00:04:01 Carol McLeod
And we just adored one another. Still, do he now? He’s taller than I am, but we spent a week together. Ian and I had playing with Matchbox Cars and going to Panera.
00:04:14 Carol McLeod
And doing all the reading books, going for walks, doing all the things we would do together and it’s time for me to go home and we were at the airport and he had his arms wrapped around my leg and just a vice grip and I knew I had to go get on the plane. And I said, well, buddy, it’s time for Mommy to go now.
00:04:34 Carol McLeod
And I bent down in front of him. Rachel and I held his little heap face in my hands and I said, Ian, go change the world and he took a step back and he looked at me and he said, Mommy, I can’t do that. I don’t have superpowers.
00:04:51 Carol McLeod
And I wrapped him in my arms and I said Ohh buddy. But you do, you do have superpowers. You have the power of the Holy Spirit inside of you. And so I left that little boy there on the tarmac with his mom and dad. But through the years he, he and I’ve talked about that he’s now 15.
00:04:53 Rachel Wojo
Oh.
00:05:11 Carol McLeod
Much taller than I am and and we talk about the superpower that he has inside of him. And you know, Rachel, it’s so important to remind our children from a very early age who they are and what they have.
00:05:26 Rachel Wojo
Yeah. Yes.
00:05:27 Carol McLeod
Again, the world is shouting at our children and we need to be the consistent.
00:05:34 Carol McLeod
Quiet.
00:05:36 Carol McLeod
But informative voice of truth in their lives. And so that’s my sweet story about my little Ian.
00:05:41 Rachel Wojo
Yes, it’s.
00:05:44 Rachel Wojo
Oh, I just love that so much. I think. What? What prompts me to love it so much? First of all, is is the truth that the world is shouting at our children, but not only are there they.
00:05:56 Rachel Wojo
Outing the the kids, I think part of what induces anxiety is for the generations, especially underneath me. But it’s even creeping up into my generation and beyond. And it’s that over information because of technology, which is a wonderful tool that I absolutely love.
00:06:19 Rachel Wojo
And I’m happy to use for God’s glory. But the flip side of that tool is that it’s so convenient and it’s so addictive. And then we’re over informed. It causes us to worry and be anxious about every little thing.
00:06:36 Rachel Wojo
And we, we get an ailment, a symptom of any kind, and we’re automatically Googling it and thinking the worst, you know, and then the the problem with that over information is then we get decision fatigue. Our brains were not designed to make that many decisions.
00:06:58 Rachel Wojo
In one day. And so because we’re over informed and then we have decision fatigue.
00:07:04 Rachel Wojo
It just causes that anxiety to creep up, creep up, creep up. I know you are a Bible teacher at heart and you have this new book that is absolutely astounding. It’s a beautiful Bible study. Overflowing is the title. And I just love the cover, by the way.
00:07:12 Carol McLeod
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:25 Rachel Wojo
The cover is beautiful. The subtitle is living abundantly.
00:07:31 Rachel Wojo
In a broken culture, and this is a Bible study about the book of Colossians. So I want to understand what inspired you to write this Bible study and what do you hope people will really glean from it.
00:07:49 Carol McLeod
Yeah. So, Rachel, I was so distressed at what was going on in the world and and the voices and the compromise and where is virtue in our.
00:07:58 Carol McLeod
World do people.
00:07:59 Carol McLeod
Even know what the word virtue means anymore? Morality.
00:08:03 Carol McLeod
And and then, Rachel, it bled over into what I was hearing from the church. And I thought, oh, my goodness, the church is giving in. We we are embracing these deceptive voices in our culture. And as I was reading the book of Colossians one day, which by the way, has always been one of my favorite.
00:08:24 Carol McLeod
Books in the Bible I I realized that Paul addresses that very thing.
00:08:28 Carol McLeod
Yes, that he was living in a broken culture.
00:08:31 Carol McLeod
And that the church at Colossi was allowing the culture to bleed in to their belief system. And so I thought, here we go. This is a book for right now. And the more I study Colossians, the more convinced I am that although Paul wrote it from prison to the church at Colossi.
00:08:52 Carol McLeod
What he didn’t realize was that he was writing it for the church in the 21st century. That that’s how incredible the Holy Spirit is, Rachel, that the Holy Spirit can look down through the quarters of time and say, Paul.
00:09:05 Carol McLeod
I’m going to give you a word for Colossi, but brother, it’s going to ricochet through the centuries, and so we’re the beneficiaries of that. And you know, I I think one of the premier lessons for me from the book of Colossians, Rachel, that I and I would love for the readers.
00:09:25 Carol McLeod
To really ponder and wrestle with is this.
00:09:27 Carol McLeod
Paul wrote this book from prison theologians say it was his longest imprisonment, and so here he was, a man likely either his feet or his hands were in chains. While we actually know his hands are in chains by something he says in the book. And he could have been frustrated. He could have been angry at God.
00:09:48 Carol McLeod
He he could have been writing letters of complaint to the management, he he.
00:09:52 Carol McLeod
Could have been.
00:09:52 Carol McLeod
In a field position. Ohh, but not Paul. Paul took his prison years.
00:09:58 Carol McLeod
And said I’m not going to waste one day of the redeemed life that God has given me, that even while in prison, I’m going to be a voice of encouragement. And so, Rachel, we all spend time in prison, don’t we of prison, of anxiety, a prison of grief? For me, it’s been a prison of depression.
00:10:02 Rachel Wojo
Yeah.
00:10:19 Carol McLeod
Often a prison of health issues or finances or or a devastating relationship. What prison are you into?
00:10:27 Carol McLeod
Day don’t waste the prison years, but use them as a time to encourage others to to leave a seed of truth in someone else’s life, to lift up somebody else’s arms in the battle. So that’s one of the the big lessons that I have learned.
00:10:48 Carol McLeod
From the book of Colossians, but in addition to that, Rachel theologians also tell us that it’s the most Christ centered book in the entire Bible. What?
00:10:48
Mm-hmm.
00:11:00 Carol McLeod
You mean it’s not Matthew, Mark.
00:11:01 Carol McLeod
Luke or John? No, it’s it’s Colossians.
00:11:06 Carol McLeod
And I think that in order to deal with the anxiety of the world, with the lack of virtue in the world, yeah, with the discouragement here, our life has to have a center. And some of us have centered our life on shopping, on entertainment, on sports, on finances, on travel. None of those things are.
00:11:17
And.
00:11:26 Carol McLeod
Label foundation, Rachel, our foundation.
00:11:28 Rachel Wojo
Right.
00:11:29 Carol McLeod
Must be on Jesus Christ and on him alone. So I really want to ask your listeners to evaluate what is my center, what have I based my life upon? What do I think about before I go to bed at night? What’s my first thought in the morning? What? What do I divert to when I have a little bit of free time?
00:11:50 Rachel Wojo
Yeah.
00:11:50 Carol McLeod
What do I choose to do? Look at your checkbook. So many people say your checkbook is a is a.
00:11:56 Carol McLeod
Good thermometer barometer of what’s important to you in your life. Look at your calendar. What’s important to you? I I pray that we would all learn as women in the 21st century to center our lives on Jesus Christ and the power of his gospel.
00:12:01 Rachel Wojo
Right.
00:12:17 Rachel Wojo
And I think the lesson that I took away.
00:12:20 Rachel Wojo
A on top of all of that is that we don’t have to live like we’re broken, even though the culture is broken, we can step into abundance and we can step into fullness right here in this day and age. And that’s the lesson that Paul is teaching us, which is so.
00:12:32 Carol McLeod
Yeah.
00:12:45 Rachel Wojo
It’s echoed throughout many of his epistles, but I do I it’s exciting to see how poignant it is in the book of Colossians. In your new book you have this quote, Henry Drummond quote that I found so interesting. It says men may not know how fruits grow.
00:13:05 Rachel Wojo
Know, but they do know that they cannot grow in 5 minutes. Some lives have not even a stalk on which fruits could hang, even if they did grow in 5 minutes. Some have never planted 1 sound seed of joy in all their lives, and others who have planted a germ or two have lived so little in sunshine.
00:13:30 Rachel Wojo
That they never could come to maturity and all of this quote summed up really if we’re.
00:13:37 Rachel Wojo
Wanting that life of abundance in a broken culture, and we’re seeking how to really live for Christ when the world is just falling apart around us, then we have to take action. We have to be purposeful about that and I really believe this is a big part of what your Bible study does for us. It really.
00:13:58 Rachel Wojo
Helps us move into action so.
00:14:02 Rachel Wojo
So.
00:14:03 Rachel Wojo
How would you advise our listeners to start planting those seeds of joy because we want that harvest right. But what steps can we take to begin to live abundantly? And I know, I mean, you’ve written an entire book about this and did not sell it. And this one question may be a little difficult, but.
00:14:24 Rachel Wojo
How can they start to plant those seeds of joy?
00:14:28 Carol McLeod
Oh yeah, and and Rachel, I do have some very practical steps to live a life of joy. You know, I’ve I’ve wrestled with depression my entire adult life, Rachel. I used to be consumed by it. I’m no longer consumed by it. But now when depression knocks on the door of my heart and it still does.
00:14:49 Carol McLeod
I knew how to answer the door, and those are my practical.
00:14:52 Carol McLeod
Steps you know, when I go and teach the word of God to women, often women will come up to me and say, Carol, I I don’t have the joy that you have. I don’t understand joy the way you do. And. And Rachel, I look at their faces and their wrinkled, weary faces and I say, OK, that’s OK. If you don’t understand.
00:15:13 Carol McLeod
Joy than just have a grateful heart, because gratitude and joy are not very far apart. And so I think one of the first things I would encourage somebody to do.
00:15:25 Carol McLeod
Do is keep a list of gratitude like don’t go to sleep at night until you’ve written down five things that you’re thankful for today. A cup of coffee with your husband, a sweet text message from a friend. What? Whatever you can be thankful for. The flowers growing by your front door live a life of gratitude and joy will begin to grow.
00:15:45 Carol McLeod
Around the corners of your life, you know another thing, Rachel, I tell women is listen, I can’t change your circumstances for you. Well, I wish I could. I wish I could change this culture. I.
00:15:58 Carol McLeod
I can’t do it, but I can help you process them according to the word of God, because the word is our blueprint of how to process difficulties hard times. You know, Rachel, listen, this is the deal. We are not the first generation to live in a broken culture. Every generation has been invited by the Holy Spirit to live abundantly.
00:16:19 Carol McLeod
In a broken culture, think about the black plague. Think about the Crusades. Think about the civil war or concentration camps during World War Two. What do we think? We’re the first ones. No, we’re not. We’re just the current ones being invited by the Holy.
00:16:28
Yeah.
00:16:35 Carol McLeod
Spirit to live abundantly. And so you know I the the quote you read by Henry Drummond. He said some of you don’t even have a stock. Well, how do I grow a stock you grow a stock by opening up the Bible and reading it.
00:16:48 Carol McLeod
Listens give the Holy Spirit something to work with. Open your Bible if you don’t know where to read. Just start in psalms. Be gentle with yourself. You don’t need to read 2 hours a day. Read 5 minutes and see the strengthening that will happen. You know, Rachel, I often compare reading the word of God.
00:17:09 Carol McLeod
Just like going to the gym like you put it off, you hate it. You go, you sweat.
00:17:15 Carol McLeod
And nothing happens. You still have your flabby body, but if you go again the next day, oh, then you start to ache and hurt. But by the third week, your genes fit better and it’s the same way with reading the Bible. If you can consistently open the sacred pages of Scripture and breathe in the presence of the Lord.
00:17:38 Carol McLeod
All of a sudden you’re going to realize, oh, I have more joy. I have. I have the peace that passes understanding because there’s an internal work being done in you by the power of the word of God in your.
00:17:52 Carol McLeod
Life, you know another thing for just some more practical things. If you’re struggling, where’s joy? Where’s hope or peace? Go for a walk. Get yourself outside of your house and go for a walk in the fresh air.
00:18:05 Carol McLeod
Rachel, you probably know this, but social scientists, psychologists tell us that when we smile at a stranger, the endorphins raise in our body and endorphin is a hormone that helps us battle depression. When we do something kind for someone else, the endorphins raise in our bodies.
00:18:26 Carol McLeod
So if you’re in a battle with discouragement or grief.
00:18:29 Carol McLeod
Leaf go do something to take your take a loaf of banana bread to your neighbor. Volunteer to work in the church nursery, slip the single mom a $20 bill. You will be surprised at what human kindness will do to raise your level of joy and hope. There’s just some practical things.
00:18:49 Rachel Wojo
Yeah, it’s so true. I’ve experienced that in my own life, especially, you know, I described to you that for 22 years I took care of my special needs daughter until she passed away in 2019. And so we spent many years of our family’s life. I mean, I have.
00:19:06 Rachel Wojo
Five kids who are younger than her and one older than her, so a lot of life was happening during those years and when I would find myself struggling with just the walls, feeling like they were closing in that depression, feeling the oppression from the enemy.
00:19:26 Rachel Wojo
You know the end result of her life that we knew was always looming, always evident seizures that we were always dealing with. You never know when they would strike. And so all of those things together, I found one of the most.
00:19:44 Rachel Wojo
Profound ways that I could cope with those things was a simple act of kindness for someone else, and usually they would say to me, I know you have so much going on in your life. I don’t know why you’re making time to do this for me, I should be doing this for you, and I would just think to myself, you have no idea this.
00:20:05 Rachel Wojo
Actually comes back to me. Yeah, I fold tenfold, 20 fold. I mean, the Lord just expounds on it. And so.
00:20:15 Rachel Wojo
Ohh.
00:20:16 Rachel Wojo
Obeying him in those small everyday acts of kindness for others was often what sustained me in the depth of despair that we had happening. And so I fully agree and fully testify to all of those things that you just shared. They really do work.
00:20:36 Rachel Wojo
I was thinking too about this verse because last night it came up. The verse itself didn’t come up, but this topic of having peace and how we can ground ourselves in peace amidst all the anxiety that is prevalent in our culture. And then this morning the Lord brought to.
00:20:54 Rachel Wojo
Me Psalm one 19165, which says great peace have those who love your law and nothing can make them stumble. So I think the reason that verse is so precious to me is because when I get tired, my husband will tell you the first thing I start to do is stumble. My feet will not go in the right direction.
00:21:15 Rachel Wojo
I’ll drop something. I will trip on something. And that is just how my body works. It’s the signal to slow down or to stop and rest. And so.
00:21:26 Rachel Wojo
Though I think a lot of times that’s what the Lord is telling us, that if we fuel up with his word like you’re encouraging people to do with this Bible study in Colossians, if we feel up, then we will have that fortitude to work.
00:21:46 Rachel Wojo
Towards joy and we’ll have that strength from the Lord, he tells us that’s available to us, right.
00:21:53 Rachel Wojo
I appreciate you being on the podcast so much. I know that everyone listening will be encouraged by what you’ve shared so far. I would love for you to tell us the best place to find you to find your new Bible study and just to be able to purchase it if they should.
00:22:13 Rachel Wojo
Feel led to go that direction. So many people are looking for fabulous Bible studies, and I just wanted to be sure to share yours. So could you direct us towards the best place?
00:22:26 Carol McLeod
I would love to, Rachel. First of all, you can go to my website, which is Carol MacLeod, Ministry.
00:22:31 Carol McLeod
Dot com and you can purchase overflowing. The new Bible study or a wealth of other Bible studies as well. There’s always Amazon. You go to Amazon and purchase it. Christian Books really wherever books are sold. But Rachel, one of the components of the Bible study is that you can also purchase.
00:22:51 Carol McLeod
Seven download teaching series that I taught at my last conference. So if you’re the kind of leader who wants to gather women in your home or a Sunday school class or a small group and and watch about a 30 minute teaching to get.
00:23:06 Carol McLeod
Other and then talk about the principles we have that for you as well, but the only place you can get the teaching downloads, digital teaching downloads on my website carolmacleodministries.com or on my publishers website which is Iron Stream.
00:23:23 Carol McLeod
Dot com. Those are the ways that you can get the book or connect with me.
00:23:30 Rachel Wojo
Wonderful. I will make sure that we put the links in the show notes, so anyone who’s listening you can go grab those.
00:23:31
So.
00:23:34 Carol McLeod
Thank you. Thank you.
00:23:38 Rachel Wojo
Carol, I think it would just be so appropriate if you would close out in prayer today.
00:23:45 Carol McLeod
I would love you, Rachel. Thanks for the opportunity. Let’s pray.
00:23:49 Carol McLeod
Jesus, we love you, Lord. We say yes to you today. We say yes to your will. Yes. To your word. Yes. To your ways and father. For those women who are listening today who are dealing with a broken heart or discouragement. Father, I pray you’d wrap your loving arms of comfort around them. Father, I pray that when they.
00:24:10 Carol McLeod
Open the Bible today that you would jump.
00:24:14 Carol McLeod
Out in a special and personal way, Father, I pray that these women would eat your words as a source of sustaining fruit in this world gone mad. Father, we love you and we love serving you. And Lord, we’re going to serve you the rest of our days.
00:24:35 Carol McLeod
So, Father, thank you for the peace that passes. Understanding. Thank you for the joy of your presence. And thank you that you are the God of all comfort in your name I pray. Amen.
00:24:49 Carol McLeod
Amen.
00:24:50 Rachel Wojo
Amen. Amen. Thanks so much for the.
00:24:53 Rachel Wojo
Listening today until next time, remember God sees you and knows your need.
00:25:01 Rachel Wojo
Thank you for listening to the Untangling Life Podcast with Rachel Wojo. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, be sure to subscribe for show notes and free resources. Visit rachelwojo.com. See you again soon.